Haste vs. Attack Power
Hello hello
I have finally gotten my butt off the passive gear-collecting route and started to really focus on what I need.
Feel free to check my armory profile and see what I have. Yes, I am ashamed that I have not bought the Herkuml War Token, but yeah, I'm buying that next.
My main question is about gemming.
According to the elitistjerks article I read, (if needed I will post a link later) for mutilate pve rogues, 1 haste = 1.9 attack power. Due to this, I have socketed a few 10 haste 20 AP gems, overlooking the 40 AP gems and considering 10 haste and 20 ap better than 20 haste.
The way I figure is that 40 AP > 19AP (from 10 haste) + 20 AP > 38 AP (from 20 haste)
And yet, something seems wrong to me. If it were as simple as stacking AP, people would do that; However, when I look at the armory profiles of much more experienced muti rogues, it seems they stack primarily haste, and then socket the 10 haste/20 AP gems only when required for the socket bonus.
Can anyone offer insight to this? Should I listen to elitist jerks and get 40 AP, or should I go with the trend and get 20 haste where possible?
I have finally gotten my butt off the passive gear-collecting route and started to really focus on what I need.
Feel free to check my armory profile and see what I have. Yes, I am ashamed that I have not bought the Herkuml War Token, but yeah, I'm buying that next.
My main question is about gemming.
According to the elitistjerks article I read, (if needed I will post a link later) for mutilate pve rogues, 1 haste = 1.9 attack power. Due to this, I have socketed a few 10 haste 20 AP gems, overlooking the 40 AP gems and considering 10 haste and 20 ap better than 20 haste.
The way I figure is that 40 AP > 19AP (from 10 haste) + 20 AP > 38 AP (from 20 haste)
And yet, something seems wrong to me. If it were as simple as stacking AP, people would do that; However, when I look at the armory profiles of much more experienced muti rogues, it seems they stack primarily haste, and then socket the 10 haste/20 AP gems only when required for the socket bonus.
Can anyone offer insight to this? Should I listen to elitist jerks and get 40 AP, or should I go with the trend and get 20 haste where possible?
Q u o t e:
Hello hello
I have finally gotten my butt off the passive gear-collecting route and started to really focus on what I need.
Feel free to check my armory profile and see what I have. Yes, I am ashamed that I have not bought the Herkuml War Token, but yeah, I'm buying that next.
My main question is about gemming.
According to the elitistjerks article I read, (if needed I will post a link later) for mutilate pve rogues, 1 haste = 1.9 attack power. Due to this, I have socketed a few 10 haste 20 AP gems, overlooking the 40 AP gems and considering 10 haste and 20 ap better than 20 haste.
The way I figure is that 40 AP > 19AP (from 10 haste) + 20 AP > 38 AP (from 20 haste)
And yet, something seems wrong to me. If it were as simple as stacking AP, people would do that; However, when I look at the armory profiles of much more experienced muti rogues, it seems they stack primarily haste, and then socket the 10 haste/20 AP gems only when required for the socket bonus.
Can anyone offer insight to this? Should I listen to elitist jerks and get 40 AP, or should I go with the trend and get 20 haste where possible?
I would listen to EJ before random opinions from the rogue community.
The two are pretty close in terms of dps, between gemming for haste and AP as 51/18/2.
But in the end, if you're not BiS, AP is superior but a large or small amount - none the less, AP as main stat with haste as secondary stat.
Q u o t e:
Hello hello
I have finally gotten my butt off the passive gear-collecting route and started to really focus on what I need.
Feel free to check my armory profile and see what I have. Yes, I am ashamed that I have not bought the Herkuml War Token, but yeah, I'm buying that next.
My main question is about gemming.
According to the elitistjerks article I read, (if needed I will post a link later) for mutilate pve rogues, 1 haste = 1.9 attack power. Due to this, I have socketed a few 10 haste 20 AP gems, overlooking the 40 AP gems and considering 10 haste and 20 ap better than 20 haste.
The way I figure is that 40 AP > 19AP (from 10 haste) + 20 AP > 38 AP (from 20 haste)
And yet, something seems wrong to me. If it were as simple as stacking AP, people would do that; However, when I look at the armory profiles of much more experienced muti rogues, it seems they stack primarily haste, and then socket the 10 haste/20 AP gems only when required for the socket bonus.
Can anyone offer insight to this? Should I listen to elitist jerks and get 40 AP, or should I go with the trend and get 20 haste where possible?
as your gear gets better, haste gets better
at your gear level, i would expect to be gemming ap in reds, and ap/haste in yellows to pick up the bonus, and one nightmare tear in a blue.
at higher gear levels, roughly around icc25 level you start going with haste in yellow and ap/haste in red, one nightmare tear.
drop the ap/stam and ap/hit gems imo, i dont think you need the hit, and stam gems are never good
these are rough estimates. you should plug your gear into a spreadsheet or idps for a more definative answer
edit: spelling
Q u o t e:
as your gear gets better, haste gets better
at your gear level, i would expect to be gemming ap in reds, and ap/haste in yellows to pick up the bonus, and one nightmare tear in a blue.
at higher gear levels, roughly around icc25 level you start going with haste in yellow and ap/haste in red, one nightmare tear.
drop the ap/stam and ap/hit gems imo, i dont think you need the hit, and stam gems are never good
these are rough estimates. you should plug your gear into a spreadsheet or idps for a more definative answer
edit: spelling
no.
ep value of haste is approximately 1.9 for 51/18/2.
ep value of ap is approximately 1 for 51/18/2.
20 haste - 1.9 x 20 = 38
40 attack power - 1 x 40 = 40
40>38
Attack power will be your main stat, with haste as a secondary stat.
Attack power doesn't cap, haste does.
Should he put black magic on his weaps too?
..........
Like I already said, listen to EJ or random opinions from the rogue community, your choosing.
Q u o t e:
no.
ep value of haste is approximately 1.9 for 51/18/2.
ep value of ap is approximately 1 for 51/18/2.
20 haste - 1.9 x 20 = 38
40 attack power - 1 x 40 = 40
40>38
Attack power will be your main stat, with haste as a secondary stat.
Attack power doesn't cap, haste does.
Should he put black magic on his weaps too?
OKAY, YES YOU ARE CORRECT AP/HASTE when the EP values are FLAT equals 38 but the fact of the matter is if you have a yellow socket and a red socket gem the red socket for AP, the Yellow for AP/HASTE, and pick up that socket bonus that is surely going to be equal or greater than 4 AP or 4 AGI
PLZ just idps your @%*! it's easy as all hell and make sure you put in the correct buffs for the run that matters most to you, aka if your doing 10m LK runs then put the buffs you have in your 10 man there.
Edit: Just looked at your Armory, Right, kick ass. Well, don't want to sound like a @**! or nothin', but, ah... it says on your chart that you're ##*%ed up. Ah, you talk like a @#*, and your @*%!'s all retarded. Yeah 2 slow daggers, gemming seems to not follow much of anything, you should have picked up herkumi war token by now, and that's just the beginning, if your really reading ej check if you have a retention level higher than that of a goldfish.
Q u o t e:
ep value of haste is approximately 1.9 for 51/18/2.
ep value of ap is approximately 1 for 51/18/2.
20 haste - 1.9 x 20 = 38
40 attack power - 1 x 40 = 40
40>38
Attack power will be your main stat, with haste as a secondary stat.
Attack power doesn't cap, haste does.
Like I already said, listen to EJ or random opinions from the rogue community, your choosing.
EP values change as your gear changes. The values listed on EJ are not absolute values. The only way to know for sure is to do the math every time your equipment changes. Luckily, the rogue community has been good enough to make the spreadsheets. Use them. Love them.
Q u o t e:
no.
ep value of haste is approximately 1.9 for 51/18/2.
ep value of ap is approximately 1 for 51/18/2.
20 haste - 1.9 x 20 = 38
40 attack power - 1 x 40 = 40
40>38
Attack power will be your main stat, with haste as a secondary stat.
Attack power doesn't cap, haste does.
Should he put black magic on his weaps too?
..........
Like I already said, listen to EJ or random opinions from the rogue community, your choosing.
Haste doesn't cap, and the EP weights of stats change based on gear. There is literally no such thing as a static EP weight (aside from AP=1, which is the baseline.)
Q u o t e:
OKAY, YES YOU ARE CORRECT AP/HASTE, red socket for AP, the Yellow for AP/HASTE
Q u o t e:
no.
ep value of haste is approximately 1.9 for 51/18/2.
ep value of ap is approximately 1 for 51/18/2.
20 haste - 1.9 x 20 = 38
40 attack power - 1 x 40 = 40
40>38
Attack power will be your main stat, with haste as a secondary stat.
Attack power doesn't cap, haste does.
Should he put black magic on his weaps too?
..........
Like I already said, listen to EJ or random opinions from the rogue community, your choosing.
The correct answer would be: listen to a spreadsheet. EP values are not set in stone. They change depending on your gear. Therefore, saying 1 Haste = 1.9 EP is wrong. For example, the EP value of haste for the OP with full raid buffs is 1.92. That means that a 40 AP gem is slightly better for him than a 20 haste gem. However, for one of the mut rogues in my guild, the EP value of haste is 2.02 making 20 haste slightly better than 40 AP.
Q u o t e:
EP values change as your gear changes. The values listed on EJ are not absolute values. The only way to know for sure is to do the math every time your equipment changes. Luckily, the rogue community has been good enough to make the spreadsheets. Use them. Love them.
I guess you had a hard time seeing the "approximate"
Q u o t e:
I guess you had a hard time seeing the "approximate"I happened to throw in there.
Yeah, but you based your assumptions on the idea that they were set in stone, making you incorrect.
Q u o t e:
The correct answer would be: listen to a spreadsheet. EP values are not set in stone. They change depending on your gear. Therefore, saying 1 Haste = 1.9 EP is wrong. For example, the EP value of haste for the OP with full raid buffs is 1.92. That means that a 40 AP gem is slightly better for him than a 20 haste gem. However, for one of the mut rogues in my guild, the EP value of haste is 2.02 making 20 haste slightly better than 40 AP.
Or you could have looked at his gear and seen that it wasn't close to BiS, then realized hey, EJ has a post specifically for mediocre geared people like this!
And in this post, it happens to state APPROXIMATE EP values.
Q u o t e:
Yeah, but you based your assumptions on the idea that they were set in stone, making you incorrect.
I guess you don't know what the definition of approximate is.
Ok- I'll look up this idps spreadsheet and tinker with it.
Thanks for the advice-
As for the haste cap, yes, it does exist, but according to elitistjerks, it's so abysmally high that "there is currently no gear combination that will reach that cap."
As for the gems in my belt, yeah... ignore those. I hope to replace the belt as soon as I can, and am on a bit of a tight budget- I'll wait to socket there.
But I do appreciate all of the advice. I'm going to go see how big a difference it turns out to be.
And who knows- Maybe haste will be a better choice for me once I get some daggers that are higher than freaking ilvl 232. I tell you, I just do not have good luck when it comes to these daggers.
Thanks for the advice-
As for the haste cap, yes, it does exist, but according to elitistjerks, it's so abysmally high that "there is currently no gear combination that will reach that cap."
As for the gems in my belt, yeah... ignore those. I hope to replace the belt as soon as I can, and am on a bit of a tight budget- I'll wait to socket there.
But I do appreciate all of the advice. I'm going to go see how big a difference it turns out to be.
And who knows- Maybe haste will be a better choice for me once I get some daggers that are higher than freaking ilvl 232. I tell you, I just do not have good luck when it comes to these daggers.
Q u o t e:
I guess you don't know what the definition of approximate is.
I guess you don't know the definition of math. You did it with those "approximate"
Q u o t e:
I guess you don't know the definition of math. You did it with those "approximate"values and gave a very specific interpretation of the data (40>38) and then applied that interpretation of the data into advice in which you stated that AP>Haste (period). This is incorrect, as EP weights changed based on gear.
AP IS better than haste when you're not BiS, which I already stated - LIKE THIS ROGUE ISN'T, HENCE WHY HE FOLLOWS THE STANDARD GUIDELINES ON EJ POCKETGUIDE WHICH IS WHERE I GOT MY INFO FROM.
Definitions of approximate :
* not quite exact or correct.
* be close or similar.
* very close in resemblance.
* not quite exact or correct.
* be close or similar.
* very close in resemblance.
Q u o t e:
AP IS better than haste when you're not BiS, which I already stated - LIKE THIS ROGUE ISN'T, HENCE WHY HE FOLLOWS THE STANDARD GUIDELINES ON EJ POCKETGUIDE WHICH IS WHERE I GOT MY INFO FROM.
You should check my armory. I'm not BiS.
I gemmed according to my EP weights.
Q u o t e:
AP IS better than haste when you're not BiS, which I already stated - LIKE THIS ROGUE ISN'T, HENCE WHY HE FOLLOWS THE STANDARD GUIDELINES ON EJ POCKETGUIDE WHICH IS WHERE I GOT MY INFO FROM.
ur mad
Q u o t e:
AP IS better than haste when you're not BiS, which I already stated - LIKE THIS ROGUE ISN'T, HENCE WHY HE FOLLOWS THE STANDARD GUIDELINES ON EJ POCKETGUIDE WHICH IS WHERE I GOT MY INFO FROM.
Again you miss the point. He's not calling your conclusion into question. It's the way you came to the conclusion.
This thread was on the old WoW forums that have since been closed.
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